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 Item Discussion

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Hamilton

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Server : Myatar Legends // Dragon's Den
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PostSubject: Item Discussion   Wed Oct 10, 2012 7:04 pm

I'm curious. About these items. There's no doubt, that when items first made their appearance they caused a slow decline in the number of roleplaying members while creating a huge and rapid increase in hoarding/collecting members.

I'd wager a great deal of the issues members complain about now, can be traced back to items. From general item beggars and 'lack' of roleplaying, to more serious matters like hacking. Mind you I'm sure there are other reasons to hacking, but the most common seem to be related to obtaining rarer items.

And items themselves can cause server owners a hard time just in making them. What, with the plethora of head options, and new body parts being available. Fitting items to every model is downright impossible.

So I've got some questions for you,

What upside is there to items? They seem to cause way more strife than they're worth.

Could a server survive past initial launch, if they limited or even removed items completely? Why? Why not?

No doubt it'd leave a void in the hunting area. Is there a better way to incorporate hunting without using items as an incentive?

Conversely, could a server survive past initial launch if hunting were removed but items were not? Why? Why not?

Would it negatively effect game-play to incorporate items into the character creation menu?


What are your thoughts on this mess we all affectionately call 'items'?
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Centelleo
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PostSubject: Re: Item Discussion   Wed Oct 10, 2012 8:10 pm

All IT is all "special" about is the items. An on going competition to who gets the best items, and then the game gets boring and they eventually just dump everything in races, screw the roleplaying then leave.

I think that if we had an experienced coder, that probably even redeye cant handle, that can code more things into the game that are just as exciting as "items", IT games would have more of a point.
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Komaeda Nagito
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PostSubject: Re: Item Discussion   Wed Oct 10, 2012 10:01 pm

I honestly think If I could add more options like different eyes I would be more then happy to delete out items or put them into customization.
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FagonStar

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PostSubject: Re: Item Discussion   Wed Oct 10, 2012 11:18 pm

Personally, I like items.

They allow for more customization. x3

If you ask me, it wasn't items themselves that lead to drama, it was "private" and speshul desu rare items.

It would probably just be a good idea to add items in the character creator like in FH. xP
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Meadowstar

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PostSubject: Re: Item Discussion   Thu Oct 11, 2012 1:44 am

I personally like items as well, but all the beggars and drama over little pixels has been driving me up the wall.

Honestly, in answer to the "Would it negatively affect game-play to incorporate items into the character creation menu?", the answer would be both yes and no. Why? Because, for one thing, people may start getting bored, and this would basically turn into FH 2. The good side about it, is that it would drastically reduce the number of item beggars, stealers, and possibly even hackers.

Overall, this is just my opinion.

And, like Cent said, IT would have more of a point if such things were added. Like, for example, maybe a server could actually have a storyline to it, or possibly even a plot.
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Hamilton

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PostSubject: Re: Item Discussion   Thu Oct 11, 2012 3:05 pm

But where does simple customization end, and over abundance begin?

I can understand the desire for horns and other body-type items. Claws, whiskers, etc. But these are all things that can not only be incorporated into the creation menu, but even be given mask layers and a spot in the color pages. Thus hosting them as items becomes...redonculous.

As for specific items as those ties and hats and necklaces. Why rely on these things to 'make' a character? Are they that important?

I get there's a strong need for individuality. Esp among all the black on red/red on black character groups (what is up with that?).

But relying on the items themselves to give your character a spark, it's more of a crutch really. Especially when any player could choose the same items. It's a viscous cycle there. Is it to difficult to put more effort into the initial creation process?

If a server did manage to offer up every customization imaginable, wouldn't that lesson that strange inner need to use items to 'stand out'?
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FagonStar

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PostSubject: Re: Item Discussion   Thu Oct 11, 2012 3:37 pm

...?

Is so much thought really needed over a few pixels?

It would be over abundance when you have thousands of items and thousands of markings. @_@

Depending on how you want the character to be, ties and hats may or may not be important. xP

Plus I wasn't talking about using items to "stand out", I actually meant that you just used them for a character's design. 8P

Let's say someone has a character that's a cat with a little hat.

Without the hat it's just a cat and the character in incomplete.
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Hamilton

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PostSubject: Re: Item Discussion   Thu Oct 11, 2012 4:10 pm

I like to take more time and assess all sides to a given subject as it pertains to possible changes.
Clearly items aren't something that are 'mere pixels' if there's so much that can be done with or without them. And I feel these areas are in need of exploration before making a final decision.

It's no secret, I hold a lot of animosity over items. Not just in the Impressive Title genre of games, but in stories and art as well. They are trinkets at best. A cat with no hat, is just a cat. That's true. But it doesn't have to be JUST a cat. It can be : Sparky, the blue-gray tabby who was lost in a field when he was a kitten and now seeks his true family. He doesn't need a hat to be a character. Just that one sentence made him a character.


Items, colors, markings, and names do not make a character. It's the character that makes these things stand out.
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FagonStar

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PostSubject: Re: Item Discussion   Thu Oct 11, 2012 5:17 pm

Good point... xD

Well, I've been thinking about it and...

If it's a server more based on roleplay, then little to no items are best, if it is a server simply for having fun and hanging out than items would probably be a good idea.
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lazyzim

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PostSubject: Re: Item Discussion   Thu Oct 11, 2012 11:55 pm

My little bit to this discussion.

On our forum, the largest number of threads concern items.
What drops them? Where do you get them?

The suggestion threads mainly concern suggested items players want ingame.

I haven't really never been a collector of items. In fact my stash on the servers
I have played tended to be rather empty. I mainly picked items that enhanced the character
I was using. So then they were worn ingame. The remainder I dumped on Default to be madly fought over.

Then there was the recent reaction to "Private" items. I did not realise that people had such
strong feelings about a few pixels they may have made compared to the amount of work in
building and maintaining a working server. So I was completely taken by surprise on that point.
So we have completely removed all traces of these items from our next release yet still have
close to 360 items we have created or retextured or collected from KITO or donations for the
players since that is what is wanted by them ingame.

We've even had to increase the stash size to 300 to stop players creating multiple "Stash Accounts".
It seems by nature we are a race of hoarders.

So I think items appear to be an integral part of IT. Feral Heart had no items yet the latest version
has bowed before the demand and they are now available.

Anyway these are my views and are therefore of little value.
~Lazyzim~

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Draak
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PostSubject: Re: Item Discussion   Fri Oct 12, 2012 5:05 am

I like items. However I'm not hell bent on them like some others. I like how they can add to a character and just the whole customisation aspect.
I also like private items, BUT I also see the downside to them. As they do cause a lot of drama. People finding it unfair, owners not wanting them ingame and so on. I don't think my private items are on any server, aside from my test server. This is mostly because servers I've been on have died + never got a chance to submit them. I have tried getting IW to add mine but I don't know what happened about that.

But yeah, on IW for example it's just item crazy, people trying to trade and asking what's rare and what isnt and so on. I think it really does take away the rp aspect of IT, since it's all people seem to do on IW. Is collect items. HOWEVER I also see good in it, because it gives you something to do ingame if you don't want to rp.

I don't rp on IT so the whole "people only like items now" aspect doesn't bother me. Although I do miss eavesdropping on derpy noob rps in Default >_> <_< |D

I like the idea of having an "Add items" in the character creation. I think it'd be really interesting how the game would play out if that was incorperated. Since I imagine there'd be no item trading or hunting for items anymore. But yeah it would make hunting animals rather...pointless since you wouldn't really get any reward from hunting. Something would have to be included to make hunting feel more worthwhile. Not sure what though. Maybe there could be some kind of "perks" system? Where say...if someone hunted 50 Zebras they got something on their character profile, like a badge or I dunno XD. Or it upped some kind of ability (Attack +5). Although that sounds awfully RPGlike. Which probably isn't all bad. But it seems like it'd be tricky to implement.

I think a server could survive without, but it would probably be constantly bombarded with "R U ADDING ITEMZ?" Just like FH was, and then FH caved and went and added them. I think it'd probably draw a more "mature" crowd, since there'd be no noobs trying to beg for items and such, and when they find out there's no items they'll probably whine and then leave. It'd probably make for a nice noob filter XD

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Meadowstar

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PostSubject: Re: Item Discussion   Fri Oct 12, 2012 1:27 pm

If items were added into character creation, then maybe there could be another point to hunting. Like, for example, if you don't want to RP, then what if certain things like quests were added? If they were, to add more of a point to "quests", then what if after you complete a quest, then you can unlock certain items within the character creator? Just a thought. XD
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lazyzim

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PostSubject: Re: Item Discussion   Fri Oct 12, 2012 1:51 pm

Meadowstar wrote:
If items were added into character creation, then maybe there could be another point to hunting. Like, for example, if you don't want to RP, then what if certain things like quests were added? If they were, to add more of a point to "quests", then what if after you complete a quest, then you can unlock certain items within the character creator? Just a thought. XD

Without items and to force the game into an RP situation you could do a Wolf Quest.
Your character has to eat ot it will die.
It dies and it does not come back.
You must make a new charrie and start over without the skills collected ingame.

Just a suggestion.
~Lazyzim~
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Komaeda Nagito
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PostSubject: Re: Item Discussion   Fri Oct 12, 2012 2:12 pm

Perhaps like other RPS prey gives you

Exp=level up

Gold=Trade in shop for items which can add attack defense or something else to a character
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FagonStar

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PostSubject: Re: Item Discussion   Fri Oct 12, 2012 3:44 pm

^---- Awesome suggestion is awesome.

I had a similar idea as LazyZim, except a little less dark and less permanent. o_o'

You hunt to refill your hunger bar, if your hunger gets down too low your health decreases until you die and you go back to the last point you "saved" at or something.

Either that or hunting could give you EXP or points or something.

The more points you get, you can unlock something maybe. >3<

I dunno, just throwing it out there.
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Meadowstar

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PostSubject: Re: Item Discussion   Fri Oct 12, 2012 6:33 pm

FagonStar wrote:
^---- Awesome suggestion is awesome.

I had a similar idea as LazyZim, except a little less dark and less permanent. o_o'

You hunt to refill your hunger bar, if your hunger gets down too low your health decreases until you die and you go back to the last point you "saved" at or something.

Either that or hunting could give you EXP or points or something.

The more points you get, you can unlock something maybe. >3<

I dunno, just throwing it out there.

Sounds epic. XD
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lazyzim

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PostSubject: Re: Item Discussion   Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:33 pm

FagonStar wrote:
^---- Awesome suggestion is awesome.

I had a similar idea as LazyZim, except a little less dark and less permanent. o_o'

You hunt to refill your hunger bar, if your hunger gets down too low your health decreases until you die and you go back to the last point you "saved" at or something.

Either that or hunting could give you EXP or points or something.

The more points you get, you can unlock something maybe. >3<

I dunno, just throwing it out there.

I didn't think my idea was dark.
If we are going RP then "You eat or you Die!"
Sounds like real life. Smile
If IRL you stuff up it would be great to go back to your last "saved" position and do it differently.
I find it kind of ironic that in games you can do this.
~Lazyzim~
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FagonStar

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PostSubject: Re: Item Discussion   Sat Oct 13, 2012 1:23 am

lazyzim wrote:
FagonStar wrote:
^---- Awesome suggestion is awesome.

I had a similar idea as LazyZim, except a little less dark and less permanent. o_o'

You hunt to refill your hunger bar, if your hunger gets down too low your health decreases until you die and you go back to the last point you "saved" at or something.

Either that or hunting could give you EXP or points or something.

The more points you get, you can unlock something maybe. >3<

I dunno, just throwing it out there.

I didn't think my idea was dark.
If we are going RP then "You eat or you Die!"
Sounds like real life. Smile
If IRL you stuff up it would be great to go back to your last "saved" position and do it differently.
I find it kind of ironic that in games you can do this.
~Lazyzim~

...Because they're video games not real life. xD
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alexterri



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PostSubject: Re: Item Discussion   Tue Nov 06, 2012 9:12 pm

in my option items are rather cool

they can be really fun to colect also Very Happy
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lazyzim

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PostSubject: Re: Item Discussion   Tue Nov 06, 2012 10:24 pm

alexterri wrote:
in my option items are rather cool

they can be really fun to colect also Very Happy

Yes I think items are also fun. I don't believe the game needs to be all about items as I've said before.
They are fun to collect. Even if the game was changed to using characters that could no longer wear items
I would still have them available for collecting and putting onto the charries they do fit.
So I would also make character specific items.
~Lazyzim~
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Meadowstar

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PostSubject: Re: Item Discussion   Wed Nov 07, 2012 8:31 pm

If the game does get more species available to play, and since not all the items would be able to fit them anymore, then why not have specific items for specific species?
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Slycan



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PostSubject: Re: Item Discussion   Thu Nov 08, 2012 4:36 am

Meadowstar wrote:
If the game does get more species available to play, and since not all the items would be able to fit them anymore, then why not have specific items for specific species?

A better question would be whats going to stop people from using items that are not for their species
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lazyzim

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PostSubject: Re: Item Discussion   Thu Nov 08, 2012 9:04 am

Slycan wrote:
Meadowstar wrote:
If the game does get more species available to play, and since not all the items would be able to fit them anymore, then why not have specific items for specific species?

A better question would be whats going to stop people from using items that are not for their species

If people want to put an item on a character that goes through their body or looks absolutely ridiculous who cares.
I run a game I am not the fashion police. Otherwise I would be deleting every character I see on my server that I did not like.
~Lazyzim~
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Meadowstar

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PostSubject: Re: Item Discussion   Thu Nov 08, 2012 2:28 pm

Slycan wrote:
Meadowstar wrote:
If the game does get more species available to play, and since not all the items would be able to fit them anymore, then why not have specific items for specific species?

A better question would be whats going to stop people from using items that are not for their species

Maybe the item that's not for their specific species can automatically go into their stash, then they can either put the item onto another character, or just give it away. Just a thought. tongue
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Hexiin

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PostSubject: Re: Item Discussion   Thu May 30, 2013 12:08 pm

@Death the Kid
Dude thats the idea I have for my server o___o
Get outta meh head xD
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